interview: Anna Burch

words + questions: Sean Fennell

We want to build a satisfying interior life, a world that’s our own, that feels comfortable and intentional, but when does interiority slip into isolation? Finding someone who you want to share that space with is important, but how do you avoid letting that wanting hover too close to needing? And even when you strike this precarious balance, when does sharing its complexities with others become an act of peddling your perspective that feels cheap? It’s within these unanswerable questions that Anna Burch’s new record If You’re Dreaming lives, a space where each layer removed reveals dozens more. 

If You’re Dreaming, out now via Polyvinyl Records, marks a long stride forward for Burch, taking the unequivocal candor and clever songwriting of her debut record, 2018’s Quit the Curse, and infusing it with a wistful ambiguity, an intentional attempt to shift the songs to creations that feel more universal. What results is a record as confident as it is vulnerable, an accessible look at moments big and small that make up everyday life. I recently got a chance to talk with Anna over the phone about the records shifting perspective, recording with Sam Evian, and pushing through self-doubt. 

photo: John Hanson

The Grey Estates: You said during the press run for Quit the Curse that you were making mental notes of how to approach things differently going into your second record, what kind of things did you want to change?

Anna Burch: It is hard to say because that was over 2 years ago but I think what I really meant was my own approach to the recording process being a little more open. With the first record it was obviously the first thing I’ve ever done with my own songs, so I was a little controlling and I regret the way in which I made decisions about the record, so for this one I wanted to have a more relaxed approach and let it happen. I did a destination recording session and we only had a couple weeks, so it really benefited to have a more open attitude which led to a more cohesive record that had a little more range in terms of instrumentation and a more open attitude and approach. 

Speaking of that recording session, I understand you worked with Sam Evian at his studio in Catskills, how did that come about?

A couple people on my team had mentioned Sam,  and then someone on my label mentioned him while I was on tour. We had already been following each other on Instagram but we had never actually exchanged any hellos, so I just DMed him after I listened to his music a bit and thought it would be a really good fit for what I wanted to do with the second record. Working with Sam made it very easy to be relaxed and allowed me to really just enjoy making music and not thinking too much about what comes next. 

Would you say working with Sam led to more collaboration than on Quit the Curse?

Because it was such a short amount of time it was really just, how do we service this song? I wrote all the songs before coming to the recording sessions so the song structure was already in place; chords, lyrics, melody, and all that stuff. None of that stuff really changed much because we didn’t have the time to pick apart the songs I had written, but in terms of the arrangements, they felt really open. I brought my drummer from Detroit and Sam played bass, so we just arranged every song as a trio when we tracked drum, bass, guitar, and on one song I played rhodes piano. We just messed around with the songs and tried to get them to a place where we were happy with the bones of it and after a week of getting the skeletons all together, Sam and I traded off overdub responsibilities which included organs, piano, harpsichord, slide guitar, and electric guitar. I felt like it was in a good place but soon realized it was maybe a little too sparse, so Sam did some extra overdubs remotely from the studio and surprised me with a couple of really nice things like the saxophone on “Not So Bad” and the clarinet on “Keep It Warm”. So I would say it was collaborative at the point of arranging but writing was pretty much airtight going in. 

I imagine there is a big difference between writing a first record versus a second, how do you navigate the idea of expectations an audience may have as you sit down to write new songs?

Writing before I had an audience and before I was playing shows, I approached it as if I was writing a journal entry or something, a way to vent in some ways. A lot of those songs have a bit more of an edge to them and maybe a bit more antagonism, more of a natural combative quality. I think the songs for this record are still working through things but in a less direct way. I tried to blend both a little bit to make things universal and think a little more outward. On some of the songs I used “you” as the subject rather than “I”, so in that way I was trying to universalize my experience. Some of the songs I was trying to meld perspectives between myself, my friends, and the things they were going through that I related to.

When considering If You’re Dreaming, did you sit down and intentionally want to shift the perspective or did it come more organically?

I am not a very good planner or draft writer or anything like that so it usually has to come while I’m in the middle of working on a song. I think the mood of the music I am writing coupled with what’s on my mind influence the song. I just try to stay loose with it. Anytime I try to overwrite a song, it usually doesn’t sit well with me. There is a certain amount of trying to be free and open which works for me. I spent a little more time arranging the lyrics on these songs because the first record was more like I just had something to say, just needed the outlet. This time around I was sitting down to write a song and considering how I was feeling and what was on my mind. For some of the songs, I had the chord progression for a few months before I was able to sit down and decide what I was trying to say. 

The song, “Every Feeling” is one of my favorites, can you talk a little about how you, as a songwriter, avoid the kind of commodification of feeling you sing about in the song?

It is tricky, especially in the situation we are in now, trying to put a record out into a world that looks so drastically different than anything we’ve seen and the business-as-usual element of being a musician is put on pause. I struggle with it. I have a hard time with self-promotion in a time like this and I do want the music to be sacred in a way and it is directly at odds with the commodification of putting out records and touring and the whole business. I am still an indie artist, I’m not raking in the big bucks or pandering to big companies and I think I am more comfortable with that than the kind of blind ambition of trying to sell the most records or be the most visible person. So that song is a bit about that and a bit about the kind of ceaseless desire we all feel being in such a consumer driven culture and how it affects our private lives as well. I wanted to write a song acknowledging that and discussing how no relationship is perfect and you are never going to find a perfect union with anyone and the ceaseless search for something greater and bigger is really a bankrupt approach to relationships or getting close to anyone. So it is a bit of a twofold song. 

I noticed you directed each of the singles’ videos for this record,  do you feel you can capture things visually that might not come across within the songs themselves?

I think it plays off the songs. I like working with the song's themes in a loose way but I never want to match perfectly with the words of a song. I’m also not trying to go beyond the song to explicate it in any way. It is just fun. I have spent a lot of my life thinking about movies. I have a masters degree in cinema and media studies so I have a lot of references and ideas swimming around in my brain. Initially the idea of me directing my videos was made due to a lack of funds. It was easier to pay a friend to shoot it when I already had the idea crafted up and give them some oversight on how I wanted it to look. I am a bit of a control freak, so there is that as well. 

Was there any point during the process of writing and recording If You’re Dreaming where you felt like you were pushing yourself out of your comfort zone?

I think there was one day during the recording session where I really struggled with writing an organ part for one of the songs. I used to play piano as a kid and I am not great at it but I’m trying to get back into it. I was trying to write this organ part and I was really getting in my head. Sometimes I can beat up on myself mentally. I kind of broke down a little bit and Sam was just like, I am just going to chill in the other room, take your time. It wasn’t just the keys part it was me reverting to this really critical inner voice which I feel like I’ve struggled with my whole life. It was one of the only times I've ran into that obstruction and it was kind of eye-opening. Like, why do you do this to yourself, when you do this you completely shut down and there is no way to be open or creative when you get in that mold of scolding yourself. More broadly, I did try to branch out a little bit. The first record I kind of wanted to limit the instrumentation and for this one I wanted to open it up. After touring for the last record I got a little more comfortable with the guitar so for this one I was able to explore a little bit more instrumentally. 

I know this is very early in what will now be a choppy, wholly unique record release experience, but what do you think will be the most lasting accomplishment you will take away from this record?

Maybe it is too early but I do feel very proud of this record. I think I’ll know more by just getting the feedback from people. I hope people will listen and there will be some sort of exchange there. I am feeling a bit lonely and existential now, I think we all are a bit. I don’t want to overstate any potential for this to ease anyone’s mind but I do hope it can be helpful to anyone who may need it.